HSCA Gutierrez Interview Audio


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Pedro Gutierrez Valencia wrote a letter to President Johnson on December 2, 1963. Gutierrez, a Mexican credit examiner, told Johnson in this letter that he had bumped into a Cuban man accompanying Lee Harvey Oswald around October 1, 1963, and that the Cuban had been counting out money for Oswald. Gutierrez' letter and subsequent FBI investigations (reported to the Warren Commission in CE 2121) was among the stories which helped form the "Cuban conspiracy" theory pushed by Ambassador Mann and CIA officials in Mexico.

However, in this HSCA interview conducted on June 5, 1978, Gutierrez denied several key aspects of what is supposed to be his own story. He told HSCA investigators that Oswald was alone when Gutierrez bumped into him. He said he could not have described the Cuban as that man was in a car far away and he barely caught a glimpse of him. Oswald was never handed money by this Cuban, in any case, and Gutierrez denied that he had heard any heated discussion concerning Kennedy. Gutierrez also disputed several lesser aspects of the FBI reports, including who the credit examination he was conducting was for and its subsequent disposition, and whether he followed Oswald. When HSCA investigator Edwin Lopez summarized the contents of the Gutierrez letter to its author, and then asked if Gutierrez remembered writing the letter, the reply was "Yes, I do, but I don't remember writing all those things that you just told me about."

Side 144:37WMAMOVMP3 
Side 202:28WMAMOVMP3 


Excerpt 103:12WMAMOVMP3 
In this excerpt, Gutierrez related to Edwin Lopez the incident where he bumped into Oswald at the Cuban Embassy, as he remembered it in 1978.
Excerpt 203:23WMAMOVMP3 
Gutierrez disputed the events as related in the letter which Gutierrez admittedly sent to President Johnson on December 2, 1963.
Excerpt 300:29WMAMOVMP3 
Gutierrez here summed up his confusion about the contents of the letter as relayed to him by Edwin Lopez.
Excerpt 400:48WMAMOVMP3 
Gutierrez described his FBI interviews as being conducted in broken Spanish, without an interpreter present.
Excerpt 500:46WMAMOVMP3 
In this excerpt, Gutierrez disputed the FBI reporting of who was the subject of the credit check that brought him to the Cuban Embassy.
Excerpt 600:40WMAMOVMP3 
Gutierrez also disputed the disposition of the credit check.
Excerpt 701:32WMAMOVMP3 
Gutierrez insisted that he had bumped into Oswald, not a Cuban or Cuban-American, in contradiction to the letter and FBI interview reporting.
Excerpt 801:33WMAMOVMP3 
In this excerpt, Gutierrez corroborated the description of Oswald he gave the FBI.
Excerpt 901:01WMAMOVMP3 
"I don't ever remember ever describing him this way. I never really saw him carefully." was Gutierrez' reaction to hearing reports of his purported description of "the Cuban".
Excerpt 1000:54WMAMOVMP3 
Gutierrez elaborated on his confusion over the reports he supposedly gave about a Cuban.
Excerpt 1100:37WMAMOVMP3 
In 1978, Gutierrez remembered seeing Oswald get into a car in which a second person was already sitting, in contradiction to the 1964 reports of his seeing both men walk to the car together.
Excerpt 1200:31WMAMOVMP3 
Gutierrez again disputed the reports that he saw the Cuban hand money to Oswald.